"Knowles, Housel, and Mark Chandler - senior vice president of legal services and general counsel of Cisco Systems - agreed that if anything is to get done in the next Congress on patent reform, interested parties need to do more to come together on the more controversial issues. It is better for industries to hash it out themselves than let lawmakers muddle with the details, they concurred. "This is a sausage-making process" and whatever industry gets accomplished with the USPTO could look totally different once Congress gets done with it, said Chandler. "I certainly believe there's no one way to skin the cat and we should be able to find ways to work together toward more certainty in outcomes." Another problem with the patent system now, Chandler said, is that technology companies all too often find themselves as defendants in patent suits, and the number defendants being named in the suits has increased eight-fold in the last few decades."